Sandman's 187g Tank Build

Yay!

Sweet.

Ok, so here are the pictures of the stand painted. The exterior is Polished Leather, and the interior is a color called Soar. It's a light blueish aqua color; similar to the color of Artic Ice. I have not put the doors back on because the paint is still curing. Can't wait to get the hardware on!

Looks excellent. Keep us posted.

That looks beautiful, can't wait to see it tomorrow!

Turns out finding hinges is much more difficult than orinally anticipated. I guess that's the price of being picky.

Im debating what kind of power strip to use. I found these, which seems to be a good option. A lot of people use American DJ strips. Any suggestions?

I figure I will need 12-15 outlets to run everything.

Depends, are you planning to use a controller?

Ya get a controller then just use a regular powerstrip with gfci for the stuff that stays on all the time

I am going to get a controller; Apex Lite. I'll have to look and see of the American DJ is a GFI. If not I can always switch out the wall outlet. Do you plug straight into the controller?

A controller will have a module with programmable outlets and deoends on you make/model

The Apex Jr, you plug into the controller, but the the apex lite has a Energy bar(EB8) with 8 outlets. It loos like a power strip with a usb port(NOTE NOT USB, RUNS AT 12V not 5) The apex controls a relay that turns the outlet on and off. You actually can put a power strip(such as this one) into one of the controlled outlets as long as the amperagee draww isn't too high(I may be wrong but I think its 5A) On my apex jr, I have 4 outlets, and am running 2 powerstrips off of the apex, one turns on both my metal halides, and the other turns on my heaters. If you put one item per outlet(instead of on a powerstrip) you can stage them(not all the heaters come on at once) but you use more outlets.

If you are planning on running variable tunze's or dimmable lights, I would look into the full APEX, it has the VDM built into it. Not that you couldn't add it, but its one less thing to have under there. Also, you get the ORP and a 2nd PH port.

Here is a comparison chart

Have you planned out all your equipment. I run more equipment than I expected from the beggining. I have so many outlets being used i.e.
(2) MP40s
(1) battery backup
(1) doser
(1) chiller pump
(2) heaters
(1) wireless net adapter
(1) return pump
skimmer, lights, uv sterilizer, reactor pump,
etc etc...so make sure you have enough outlets

Also, on some skimmers, you have to start it offset to the return pump, ie, turn off skimmer, then return pump, then after feeding, turn on return pump, then turn on the skimmer.

You can program the apex to automatically do that if your skimmer is like that.
My apex only has 4 outlets, and I am going to have to buy an extra EB8 for everything else I need to put on a timer.
One thing to know/remember is if you run vortech/tunze/dimable Leds off of a module, you don't have to plug them into energy bars. You can have the apex turn them off by the module. That can save you on a few outlets.

Thanks for the advice guys, big help. I figure I will need 12-15 outlets for all the "stuff" under the hood.

Sandman wrote:I am going to get a controller; Apex Lite. I'll have to look and see of the American DJ is a GFI. If not I can always switch out the wall outlet. Do you plug straight into the controller?

The DJ isn't GFCI protected, you'll still want to add a new outlet.

The other that I was looking at is a surge protector, which is the better choice I believe. I really like the functions of the American DJ. Being able to turn off specific things is nice, although with a control I am not sure how much I would use it.

Have you looked into which controller you want?

I am leaning towards the Apex Lite. It has more flexibility than the Jr, but not as expensive as the Apex. I honestly have not done much research on them yet, but I will before I buy.

I know there are a few good options out there, any suggestions?

I've been following a thread in rc where a guy has made one using open source and he put it out there for everyone to make their own. what made me think if it is he used an american dj for the outputs. when I get to work I will give you the link.

sisterlimonpot wrote:I've been following a thread in rc where a guy has made one using open source and he put it out there for everyone to make their own. what made me think if it is he used an american dj for the outputs. when I get to work I will give you the link.

Right on, Thanks.

Here it is, last I checked it's still in the beta process but the info is oout there to build your own. He designed a PC board that can be ordered from a website for a few bucks, a package of electronic components from (I believe) future electronics dot com and there may be some odds and ends that you may have to get from other sources but he layed it out fairly easy for us to attain and make it. then once it's made they already uploaded the programming for control, and that is all changable.

Not sure if it's a project you want to take on but it's definitely an option.

So after three weeks of V-Day extravaganza and the flu I am ready to be started on this tank again. I am ready to have a custom sump built and need some help with the design. I am going to have a External Skimmer, and internal return pump.

This is what I have so far, very simply. I want to have about 600GPH flowing through the fuge, and 1800 returning back to the tank, if this is possible with this design.

I cant seem to get the sketchup on here so here is it.

48Lx18Tx24W

I will have 75% overflow going into the skimmer, the other 25% to the fuge. The skimmer water will also flow to the fuge via PVC.

If you are looking at the sump the skimmer will be on the right, inlet on the left.

From the left, 10" inlet section, 3xbubble breaking baffles (down, up, down) approx 15in in height-1 in apart. The next section, going right, will be the fuge spanning approx 30in.. After the fuge, there will be another baffle the maybe 2 inches lower than the bubble breaking baffles? This section will be for the return and 6in in width.

I am looking for idea, and I have not been able to find anything online that does not have an internal skimmer.

Check on Melvs reef, he has some good designs(http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html)

As for the 25/75 return, if you are using a bean animal(which a lot of us like) you have to terminate the pipes below the water line, and the siphon has to fill with water. If its split, I don't know how well it would do that.
A suggestion for you is to run 2 siphons, from your overflow, have one siphon tuned for the fuge and the other for whats left. It may be more difficult to tune, but I am not sure. Also, you could run the output of your skimmer to your fuge, my skimmer flows about that much water.
Or you could run a pump to your fuge(although that would add heat and cost more in electricity.
you could also run your wet pipe into the fuge, but I don't think that would give you enough flow(or if it did, it would be loud)
If it were me, with your goals, I would add another siphon, so you could step up your return if you ever wanted to.

Also, if you posted pics, I can't se them since I am at work,

Dwolson2, good point. I had forgotten about the difference in design from the bean animal to others. So with the bean animal design, what is the optimal sump design?

I have searchs melvs, and there are non that are for external skimmers that I can find.

Actually you can put externals just about anywhere. You can have them pull and put back wherever.
we took this into account when we made mine.
http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/f/sump_f.html
here is mine for reference:

Far left rear is where the pipes come in, then it comes forward to the refuge(actually now there is sand and rock under the pipes) then after going through the chaeto it goes through the skimmer/reactor section then a bubble trap then back out.
If I could have done one thing differently it would have been to use more baffles and round over the tops of the baffles. if my skimmer starts spitting up bubbles, the bubble trap doesn't work well enough IMHO. when everything is working well though, it seems to be fine.
I actually found that my chaeto did more being the first thing after the return(didn't before in my old sump)
Is there any reason why you only want 1/3 your water flow through your refugium?

I was wanting 25% into the fuge before the skimmer to preserve some nutrients before it was skimmed. I got the idea from some reading an artical on the benefits of skimmer/refugiums.

Do you have a link to the article? I would like to check it out. Why not just run a really wide refugium, since you have the room. I can't imagine it being to much flow if you split that over 20+" wide. I used a piece of eggcrate to separate the fuge from the next chamber. Then when it gets clogged, I pull it out, clean it and throw it back in.

Sandman wrote:I am leaning towards the Apex Lite. It has more flexibility than the Jr, but not as expensive as the Apex. I honestly have not done much research on them yet, but I will before I buy.

I know there are a few good options out there, any suggestions?

I would check out the Reef Angel http://www.reefangel.com/. It's a little involved with the setup and learning the application but once you've figured it out you can customize the controller to whatever you prefer. Also it's much cheaper compared to what you get on the initial investment vs other controllers.

I run everything with it- multiple tank lighting cycles for day/evening and night, ATO, pH monitor, temps, powerhead cycles for 'wavemaking' and feeding mode, fuge lighting, heaters, calc and alk dosing pumps, and the wifi adapter allows for control/status through your phone (andriod/iphone) along with being able to send you email or text alerts if your temps or pH swing out of whatever limits you set. Pretty much anytime I need something to happen in my tank based on time, temp, pH, water level or whatever the controller deals with it. I've really enjoyed all the advantages of having everything integrated with one device and support from the RA developers is amazing (they've replied to posts of mine even on Christmas Day, haha.)

Here's a link to a quick review of it with some pics:
http://reefbuilders.com/2011/07/22/reef-angel-controller/

I agree, for the price and what you can do with it, I don't know why more people aren't getting on board with the reef angel. I wonder if its because of the low price. people are asking, "what's the catch?" "if it doesn't have the $500 price tag it's not going to compete with the big two"

sisterlimonpot wrote:I agree, for the price and what you can do with it, I don't know why more people aren't getting on board with the reef angel. I wonder if its because of the low price. people are asking, "what's the catch?" "if it doesn't have the $500 price tag it's not going to compete with the big two"

Yep, I think lack of research and the "involvement" in coding is what turns people off of it. It's easy to market something that's plug and play without people realizing the limitations of those controllers.

I also notice that the popular online stores don't carry their products. i.e. reef geek, marine depot, etc.

Sorry to be that guy, but to get internet connection, a controller with 8 outlets and the PWM sigal(basically the Apex full) the difference is 469(with shipping) vs 500(most places give free shipping if over 150/175). Although expanding is more expensive, I do like the simplicity and reliability of the Apex systems. All of the things you listed can be done with the apex, you just need to know how to program it(look in the unofficial guide)

I looked at getting the APEX full and the reef angel, and decided to get the full(its ordered, as most of you know I already have the Jr)
The fit and finish is much cleaner, there is a warranty(not sure if RA has that) and its very easy to resale if I chose to(not planning, but it helps)

I am not dogging on the RA, I just want to give credit to Neptune, their equipment is nice and reliable. For an extra 30$ to get a cleaner package, I don't think it was wasted money. Also, on a side note, I may end up not needing more than 8 outlets. If I am running variable LEDs(future obviously) and variable pumps, those don't take up outlets. Also, things like heaters can be put on a powerstrip that is controlled by the apex to save outlets.

By the way how is the build coming?

The build has not had any advancements over that last 2-3 weeks. I am hoping to have two additional holes drilled next weekend. I am ordering my sump from Charlie and the Fish Tank Factory tomorrow and it should be ready for pick up in two weeks. I have given up on finding a used tank with the correct specs. I have decided to go with design F, only adjusted to fit my specs and with a smaller return/ larger fuge area.

what size are you looking for your sump?

I have been looking for 48x24Wx18T. I want to make the most out of the 48 long.

Sump has been ordered! I will post a drawing later.

Sweet! I remmber you saying ur moving? Where are you moving to? Ur setting up the new tank there right?

I have a 36"x24"x24" glass tank

clownfish14 wrote:Sweet! I remmber you saying ur moving? Where are you moving to? Ur setting up the new tank there right?

We have decided to stay! This means that hopefully in 4-6 weeks I can put water in the tank, and 4 weeks after that I will be switching over. So the goal is to have the tank up and running by May 1st, although maybe that is optomistic. I really only have about 4 weekends in that time period to work on things.

nikecivic wrote:I have a 36"x24"x24" glass tank

Thanks, but I have already placed my order for the tank. Deposit is paid, and pick up date is March 6th!

Well if you need any help let me know i dont have much going on lol

Thanks bro, I appreciate that.

So I ordered a glass cutting hole saw from Glass-holes and it was delivered yesterday, according to USPS. I never got the package, and no one seems to know where it is. AHHH!

Yea, the UPS guy there is almost as bad as the USPS guy. Be really careful to get deliver conformation when you can. The USPS guy used to steal my mail when I lived over there, either that or a lot of packages were "misplaced"

That sucks hope you find it.

It's a woman now, but I get all kinda of mail that doesn't belong to me in my box.

i hate it when this happens!!!

dwolson2 wrote:Yea, the UPS guy there is almost as bad as the USPS guy. Be really careful to get deliver conformation when you can. The USPS guy used to steal my mail when I lived over there, either that or a lot of packages were "misplaced"

I had another package arriving today, it too went to the wrong address. Luckily my neighbor brought it to me but geez!! I had to call the post office to find the hole saw, which I still don't have.

It's not wonder people have stopped using the post office.

So after many phone calls and staking out my mailbox I was able to track down my package. Success!!!

Glad to hear that! Are you making your own overflow? Did Jimmy(or I) tell you about the place in Camarillo that sells ABS plastic for the overflow?